This is great news for wildland firefighters and their families, for people who support wildland firefighters, and for people who are tired of waging this campaign.
I tried to find a story with the details. Here’s an NBC news story
Federal wildland firefighters secured a permanent pay raise Friday after years of waiting for Congress to answer their plea.
Included in the spending bill approved by Congress is a new pay scale and incident-response premium pay, which would apply to employees assigned to active fires.
The bill next goes to President Donald Trump to sign into law.
The new pay scale means firefighters will keep their temporary pay raises of either $20,000 annually or 50% of their base salary, enacted in 2021 under the Biden administration.
Firefighters will not be eligible for premium pay for fires contained within 36 hours. The pay will be calculated at 450% of their hourly base rate for each day a firefighter is on an active fire and will be limited to a total of $9,000 in any calendar year.
This marks the first time federal firefighters will get paid for the hours they rest and sleep while away from home, which is standard practice in most municipal and state departments.
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The pay bump comes as federal firefighters recover from cuts to their ranks after the Agriculture Department, which oversees the U.S. Forest Service, reinstated more than 5,000 probationary employees who had been fired in February. At least 2,000 of them had primary or secondary firefighting duties, according to the NFFE.
This was surprising to me. I had heard the 70% figure for probationary employees with secondary firefighting duties, as primary firefighters were exempt, for those previously let go and now reinstated. But 2000 out of 5000 is 40%. Have NFFE’s estimates changed? Did NBC quote them incorrectly? Why is it so difficult to get consistent numbers about employees?
The firefighters are the issue! They are the laziest and most entitled department in the Forest Service and everyone outside of fire knows it. There will be uneducated and unskilled gs5 firefighters making as much as Professional Engineers at the Forest level. I have watched the fire crews at the local district play video games during severity, getting 12 hr days and not doing a damn thing. This is wrong in every way. You do realize that fire is nothing without the people from the natural resource and recreation departments doing the actual important tasks of firefighting. I have been picked up by a helicopter more times than I can count to got fall a tree that all the firefighters were too scared to fell. I am in better shape than every firefighter on the unit. I was once a firefighter and was embarrassed how everyone in fire acts. I wanted to actually make a difference and not “milk the OT utter” as they call it here. The fact that people are celebrating this unjust pay bump is why there will be a mass exodus of the people that make everything the FS does safe and efficient.
Don’t forget that every FS office is different. Sure there are districts like you describe, but there are many more, like my district, where we’re all on the same team, our fire shop gets it done, and they help out the rest of the district too. So as a non-fire person, I’m glad our AFEOs will finally be paid a living wage, and we need to keep fighting to raise pay across the board for the rest of us too!
Been on any forest service roads lately? Engineers seem to have no concept of drainage, out-sloping let alone designing a road that does not decimate the watershed. The design, construction, and maintenance, of forest service roads is abysmal. Engineers never get out from behind their computers except for the opportunity to suck up to the “OT udder” of course you spell udder with with “t’s” instead of “d’s” you moron.
So what if firefighters, pre-positioned during severity, play on their phones. They are not at their duty station working, they are pre-positioned due to severe fire potential, and when called they will go out and bust their tails on the fire line. In my day we used to play hacky sack, dominoes, cribbage etc. to pass the time (I am 64).
“Engineers never get out from behind their computers except for the opportunity to suck up to the “OT udder” of course you spell udder with with “t’s” instead of “d’s” you moron.”
I know Lazy started it, but…we don’t call each other names here.
Firefighters are not “unskilled and uneducated.” Many are college students or college graduates early in their career.
In my experience they are an eclectic group that defies stereotyping. You sound like someone who has a chip on their shoulder about their own life.
Hi Marie, welcome ! Your comment was fine except the last sentence was unnecessary. We don’t do personal attacks here. I know Lazy said some unnecessarily mean things as well, and I called him on it.
L…. we don’t make generalized statements about groups of people here. You might be new so I approved your post this time.
How about just saying “I’ve seen fire folks not working…”. And “i’ve done much work”. And “it doesn’t seem fair that ….”
I remember getting OT and Hazard Pay on fires as a red carded person in the distant past, is that still true?
I have seen hard working men and women over the past 12 years risking their lives and making the ultimate sacrifice of being away from their families. Those uneducated GS 5 employees gave blood sweat and tears to get themselves a living wage and when they are called to duty I have seen those same so called Forest Princesses work 36 hours straight and work 16 hour shifts up to 21 days in a row, getting two days off and back on the fire line busting their asses doing 16 hour shifts once again.
Your view is very narrow and limited, the firefighters I know dedicate their lives to wildland fire. The job is their life and many of them, sacrifice themselves and their families in the pursuit of public service and you have the audacity to lump everyone together and put them under one category of lazy forest princesses.
It sounds like the person pointing fingers needs to do some self reflection.
It’s disappointing to see such a misinformed take on wildland firefighters. These men and women risk their lives under extreme conditions, working grueling shifts in remote areas, often with limited resources, to protect people, property, and natural landscapes. The idea that they do nothing is completely detached from reality.
During severity staffing, firefighters are on standby, ready to respond at a moments notice. When a fire breaks out, they go into action, often hiking miles through rough terrain with 40+ pounds of gear, digging lines for hours, and sleeping on the ground.
As for pay, wildland firefighters have historically been underpaid, compared to the level of risk and skilled required. Many work dangerous overtime hours just to make a livable wage. If anything, they deserve better compensation for the critical work they do.
If you were once a wildland firefighter, you should know better. Instead of tearing others down, maybe consider advocating for better conditions for these still on the frontlines. Sounds to me like you forgot how it was if you were in fact a true wildland firefighter.
Wildland firefighter.. I would push back on your calling being away from your families “the ultimate sacrifice.” That has a specific meaning in the English language. Certainly firefighers die in the line of duty, and that is what most people think of when they say “the ultimate sacrifice.”
As a current USFS firefighter, I completely agree with this assessment. We have de-incentivized working on fires, and all too often justify this with a circular logic game of “firefighter safety” and “resource benefit”. Meaning, if you go and ask an engine crew (or FMO, for that matter) sitting in their truck by the roadside while the lightning fire on the hill grows bigger by the minute why they aren’t hiking up there, they’ll probably say that its just too steep and gnarly. Too dangerous. If someone motivated comes along and actually hikes up and decides that engagement is totally feasible, they will be told not to engage, with the vague justification of “resource benefit.” If you ask for specifics (what resource is actually benefitting?), you won’t get a clear answer, and the conversation will drift back to firefighter safety.
I love making more money, but I don’t feel we as a community have earned it. Aggressive initial attack is a four letter word on most districts, and project fires are seen as great money makers for everybody, agency and contractors alike. Additionally, large fires are seen as a great way to bypass pesky ol’ NEPA and get a bunch of logging done. Fires only seem to become “emergencies” when that term can be used to justify avoiding statutory requirements and logging 16’s with H.
There is absolutely zero accountability in wildland fire, since the Forest Service no longer has any cohesive fire management strategy. Say what you will about the 10am policy, but at least everybody knew what their job was, and was held to the standard of putting fires out. It breaks my heart that we just fired a bunch of non-fire people who actually had deliverables and work they were accomplishing, while the true fraud and waste of the fire-industrial complex got a free pass.
Your comment is wild. This isn’t about you. The permanent pay fix for firefighters was to lessen the massive pay gap between federal wildland firefighters and the agencies we fight fire on the line with. Our job is inherently dangerous and toxic to human health. Most of us are away from our families 100 days a year, swinging a tool, breathing in smoke for 16 hours a day to sleep in the dirt for 5. If you want to complain and compare your occupational wages with private or state sectors, then go for it. But do not compare your occupation or wages to a wildland firefighter. I am sure a mass exodus outside of fire is exactly what the new administration is looking for.
It says a lot when the site will not post the truth about how everyone outside of fire feels about the raise. Can’t let their “cash cow” disappear or ask them to help other departments of a district.
Might be time to document the lack of work they do and whistle blow.
The truth will come out.
I bet “everyone” outside of fire doesn’t agree with you. If you see opportunities for improvement on how fire folks are managed, there is probably a way to run your concerns up the chain of command.
“Got a job code for that? I’m busy washing my <2 year old new rig after my morning workout in July/August/September"
I would guess the difference in the number of employees in fire that one statistic is primary + secondary fire positions (which are firefighter positions) and the other is for militia (when -ologists and techs and foresters hold quals and volunteer to help out without being actual firefighters).
I’m curious to hear more about how this works for us militia folk. Will I see any extra pay when I volunteer for a fire assignment? If so, would there be any difference between a full 14 day role vs a shorter duration local assignment, vs informal help (eg driving or road guard for a day)? And how would that extra pay calculated for non-fire folks—automatically? And how much, compared to primary & secondary fire positions?
Please help me understand..
I get the “militia” , at one time I was red-carded.
I understand primary firefighter positions.
What are secondary firefighter positions?
The way I understand it both are firefighters, but primary are usually firefighting first (ie engine crew, hotshots), and secondary have other fire-related but non-firefighting duties as well (ie prevention tech, fuels AFMO, fuels planner). I don’t think these labels are applied uniformly across the agency. But there are much more knowledgeable people than me to get into the nuance about it
Thanks, I will ask around.
Glad to hear it. I caught that announcement while reading news elsewhere and thought of this web site.
Always happy to hear of FS employees rather than contracted workers.
It’s not 50% or $20,000. It’s a sliding percentage by GS.
B is correct!
It was the 50% or $20,000 which ever was less, until the passage of the recent spending bill.
I don’t know what all of the percentages are, but they are different for each GS level and unlike the 50% or $20,000 the pay raises are permanent!
There is also pay for non fire folks when they go to an incident that last longer than 36 hours.
Going back to the secondary fire positions, they change based on GS level, essentially when you become more in an upper supervisor role. There are very straightforward rules for which is which though.