I often work or interact with US Forest Service and BLM folks, as an employee of a nonprofit contractor for both agencies, as a member of a Resource Advisory Committee, as a member of a community wildfire defense partnership group, as a forestry instructor (folks who have come to my classes to make presentations or who have led field tours, including a forest supervisor, a silviculturist, an FMO, a Hotshot crew superindentant, HR officer, etc.), and as a private citizen (recreation, firewood permits). I have complained in the past about the agencies’ decisions and policies, but not about the people. By and large, the vast majority of the individuals I’ve worked or interacted with are highly professional, well educated, and, in general, do very good work on the public’s behalf.
Please share your experiences here, and focus on the positive. The folks who have been fired, as well as those who still have their jobs, need and deserve support.
Absolutely right Steve. I’ve been around the agency for 50+ years as a permanent forester, FIO on a fire overhead team, seasonal firefighter, and exec director of a non-profit that partnered with FS on projects.
THANK YOU to each current and former FS employee! You do important work for all of us!
I enjoyed working with and learning from you.
I can count on 2 hands the only really bad FS folks I worked with; They had something in common – Each was an old-school Timber Beast who thought the only good tree was one that had been loaded on a log truck.
I like this better: “By and large, the vast majority of the individuals I’ve worked or interacted with are highly professional, well educated, and, in general, do very good work on the public’s”, as written by Steve. I’ve never categorized poor performing, or employees removed from service by what their jobs were. I probably identify as a “timber beast”, in terms of managing our national resources – all of them, as they were intended to be managed. I guess that makes me as a “water beast”, “wildlife beast, “grazing beast”, “Wilderness beast”, “recreation beast” and Line Officer beast”! My experience was totally opposite from “Woodsman’s” account, but I only worked in five Regions, from being a grunt to a Forest Sup, or even as Regional Planning Director.
Come to think of it, I only can remember one TMA who was an average performer. However, several candidates from other resource areas entered into separations – some voluntary, some not! One thing for sure, I ain’t prejudiced!
Gee, Jim. Sorry if I sounded prejudiced. I’m a forester and learned how to grow lots of crop trees in my silviculture class. I’ve got my share of marking paint on my Filson cruiser vest.
The people I had issues with weren’t “poor performers;” Far from it!
The TMA on a district I was on, in Gifford Pinchot NF, always got out the cut! In fact, Bill used to produce close to 100 MMBF each year I was on that district in the late ’70’s – mid “80’s!
What I didn’t like was how close-minded those few people were; NOT open to water, wildlife, fish, recreation or other values! Saw them as obstacles to be steamrolled in sale planning process.
As I said, there weren’t many like that but they sure stood out in contrast to the folks who took a broader view of land management.
As ex-GAO I encountered numerous FS and Interior folks during my career, and they were almost uniformly excellent, hard-working, committed people. And, contrary to the sterotype of federal workers as being some sort of alien species beamed down from ice world of Hoth, they were both part of their local communities while simultaneously aware that theirs was a national mission. This duality was (is) difficult to master, but most came pretty close, and just about all did it better than I could have.
Most of my interactions with USFS/BLM employees has been as a forest user. A few things that stick out in my mind:
-First time walking into the Olympic NF HQ for a Christmas tree permit, and the friendly face behind the counter who walked me through the process, highlighted recommended areas on the small printed map of permitted cutting areas, and giving advice on the suitability of various roads to get to those areas.
-Dispersed camping in a popular section of Humboldt-Toiyabe NF, where a team of firefighters would make nightly rounds to verify compliance with a campfire ban and educate campers on the reasoning for the ban and seasons such a ban would typically be in effect.
-Local Rangers in Uinta-Wasatch-Cache NF leading guided hikes to educate locals on (among other things) problematic invasive weeds, and how hikers could do their part to safely remove invasive weeds and prevent further spread.
-Seasonal recreation technicians in Angeles NF, performing the thankless work of removing trash and other waste from some of the most heavily used and under-resourced trails and campgrounds I’ve seen.
-Climbing to the top of a lookout in Kaibab NF, where a cheerful (and possibly lonely) lookout happily explained the history of that tower and what she did on a day-to-day basis on the Kaibab plateau.
-A problem-solving District Ranger in Fishlake NF who willingly took on the seemingly impossible task of bringing diverse stakeholders together to find common ground on aspen restoration.
-Three young trail workers in the Goat Rocks Wilderness of Gifford Pinchot NF, rehabbing trail more than 25 miles from the nearest trailhead.
Reading these, and having spent most of my career in non-public facing positions (very wise choice by the FS), I would agree that most FS employees were professional and capable. In fact, I think that’s why we had so much trouble dealing with the other kind-who definitely exist- because most of us never got the practice!
That being said, post-retirement, I’d like to give shout-outs to the cheerful and helpful people I often get on the phone when I call forest offices. It is so terrific, and not common these days, to be able to press 0 and get a human being, and one who is knowledgeable and helpful. Also a shout-out to press folks, who have been absolutely helpful when they can be.
I’d also like to highlight people who are not in direct contact with the public often, and don’t have a lot of visibility unless something goes wrong.
Right now I’m talking about special uses folks, including rec special uses, including those in Montana, who, with their supervisor were unnecessarily maligned by various folks.
For relative invisibility, but key to safety, there are the engineers. I think there are very few folks who don’t use FS roads. One year, some college students volunteered to work for TSW, and I set them on writing stories of cool things FS engineers were doing. The students resigned before writing anything, so the position is still open..
And, of course, FOIA people and any folks handling FOIAs or other documentation (case records). One of my FOIA employees retired early because some outsiders were mean to her (in this case, folks from environmental groups, but I have no doubt meanness isn’t restricted to them.)
Then there are LEOs, without whom the NFs would be.. unsafe. Even though there are many fewer of them than there needs to be.
I think it is safe to say, in the coming months/years (1-3?), the absence/overworkness of many public employees in more rural/less highly employed Districts or areas, will see those areas start to have far, far more highly combative, negative, and “take things into our own hands” type of responses to things going on in their backyard public lands. It has been festering for the last 2-3 years, as the “public” has “discovered” being outside on public lands. Will it be pretty? Probably not. Will it be aligned with the current popular-vote outcomes we are seeing in the last 1.5 months? Doubt it.,
What are you saying… “aligned with popular vote outcomes”? I was outside during Covid when employees were very low-profile, and I don’t remember those things happening. If I recall correctly, public safety folks like LEOs were exempt from downsizing so…???
I tell ya what I was seeing Sharon, beginning in 2021, there was a pretty strong wave of protectionism within the FS to keep the public out of their lands! Layer upon layer of finding ways to restrict all forms of recreation; how dare the public show up. However, Covid forced the public out in mass, and the FS, at least, was nary prepared to handle the throngs.
What this may do, is align the field with more of a responsibility for managing public’s expectations. I sure hope so….. Maybe, just maybe, we do not need that “4,000” GS 13-15’s, and “10,000” GS 11’s & 12’s……
Both things can be true… FS employees do many useful things AND some FS jobs are probably not necessary or could be combined. I’ve had some, so I know this from experience. I don’t think it’s a grade thing, so much as “what are they doing exactly” thing.
I used the “grade thing” as a tool from one of the folks who had commented earlier. I didn’t have any idea of that breakdown but my hunch that FS was way overloaded in higher grade employees. What is/was represented is almost half the FS workforce, GS 11 and above! That’s shocking to me, but I come from a different era and ethic….
There are many questions one could raise about this.. is it just “grade inflation” with the same kind of work involved? Does it occur equally in all kinds of positions and series?